3 Secret SEO Tactics (E103)

  • Jason Berkowitz
  • Founder of Break The Web


Jason Berkowitz is the Founder & SEO Director of Break The Web, a boutique Inbound Marketing agency based in NYC. Through trial & error, Jason officially started freelancing, offering SEO back in 2010 and as demand grew, the transition into an agency was the natural course.




Charles:                        00:00                In this episode of the business of eCommerce. I talk with Jason Berkowitz about three secret SEO tactics. This is a business of e-commerce, episode one Oh three

Charles:                        00:16                Welcome to the business of eCommerce, the show that helps eCommerce retailers start, launch and grow their eCommerce business. I’m your host, Charles [inaudible], and I’m here today with Jason Berkowitz. Jason is the founder of break the web, an inbound marketing agency based in New York city who has been helping clients with SEO strategies since 2010 I asked Jason on the show today to talk about how you can use SEO to help grow your eCommerce business. So, Hey, Jason, how are you doing today? Hey, Charles. Doing well. How are you doing? Good. Great to have you on the show. SEO is one of those things that you can almost never get enough of. Like it’s always this evolving thing, right? Where you know, 2019 today and even the stuff from last year or even the stuff from earlier this year, right? It seems outdated by this time, so it’s always nice to kind of keep talking about this, right?

Jason:                           01:03                Yeah. Google is definitely keeping the SEO community on their toes with ever evolving changes, updates and everything’s that’s happening all algorithmically. But yeah, just simply keeping us on our toes. So probably the best way to put it.

Charles:                        01:19                Yup. Yeah. SEO, it’s also unique for e-commerce, right? Where you know, the very page page heavy, I guess what you’d say. You know, people have blog content but they might only have, you know, several, a hundred posts I would say. But with e-commerce you could easily have thousands of product pages. And you need to kind of differentiate, differentiate each one. So what are some challenges and what are you kind of recommend with eCommerce clients to actually help them, you know, stand out from the noise?

Jason:                           01:49                Yeah, I think you actually nailed one of the biggest challenges is that creating that differentiation on specific products. People might create multiple product pages for the same product where there’s just one different variation that’s different. Whether it’s the color size, those are typical, are trying to make them as unique as possible would be the goal. Whether that’s a completely unique product description to build a unique meta-description page. How to as much as you can. The reason is because you want to avoid the two pages possibly competing with each other on Google search results. That is called keyword cannibalization. And what they essentially do is cancel each other out and neither will rank just the school doesn’t know which one might be the most appropriate. So with creating that differentiation, the goal would be to try to make them as unique as possible and that is a challenge in and of itself trying to make a product description for the same product.

Jason:                           02:40                Unique. Obviously even in a more ideal world would be to have those filters set directly on our product page where they can adjust size, color, but essentially trying to make each product as neat as possible. One thing we see also a lot when new eCommerce sites launch is that they’ll use a lot of template information which might be carried over to multiple products, which again is not creating that differentiation. It is time consuming, but to hit every single skew as best as possible to essentially create something very unique is the best route to go on in that,

Charles:                        03:14                That aspect. Yeah, that’s always tough. I was actually talking to client hair literally before this call. And they’re loading in hundreds of products kind of in bulk. Large batches come in and they using descriptions from a distributor which pulls from a manufacturer and these you know, very like, you know, the LIJ red, red widget type of thing. The, not in some of these manufacturers, their descriptions are so just basic urgent aspect there. Yeah. Do you, would you really go through and rebuild each one from scratch or what do you do with folks that actually cannot have a lot of skews?

Jason:                           03:52                So I would focus on conversion. You know, that’s only another big reason why people might necessarily necessarily hit that add to cart option is because they may have not been getting the answers to the questions they had or maybe the copy on the product description didn’t really meet their needs or what the typical questions might be. A SEO comes second essentially to conversion and aesthetics. So I would focus on that first, making sure that the copy is set up to convert and instead of that, the product description is something that is unique. Like you said, many of these big warehouse or manufacturers aren’t taking the time to have something creative in their content. They usually just want to give the basic description, here’s what you need to know about the product, size, length, weight, whatever it might be, colors, material. Definitely take the time to get a little bit creative with your POC description, showcase the market differentiators, why they should buy your product versus something else and focus on the conversion and then tweak after for SEO and see what can we modify for SEO value later.

Charles:                        04:52                Got it. Okay. So start with, I mean, start with like the people in mind and not the, not the robots, right?

Jason:                           04:58                Yeah. And that’s what Google says that they want is they want you to focus on the user. And I do air quotes because Google is known to say one thing and mean a different thing, but it does come into play in the fact that, you know, bringing traffic to website via SEO is great and all, but if you’re not converting was all that worth it. And that’s the question. So make sure that your website is aesthetically pleasing, has good copy, good great product descriptions that are unique, that pretty much might answer all the questions somebody might have initially right off the bat and focused on getting that add to cart button. And then once you took out the card of course conversion optimization to get that checkout.

Charles:                        05:32                Got it. What are some recent kind of happenings with SEO? I feel like every time I kinda, I kinda like have left the scene a little bit. And every time I come in there’ll be like, you know, five different big goal changes. Everyone’s kind of freaking out and then they have these like odd names. What is kind of, what’s been the 2019 list of crazy Google search name changes that happened? Yeah, actually introduced

Jason:                           05:58                Something very new this month I believe. And it’s a big game changer. I’m not a game changer. We’ll see how that plays out. I have my own personal opinions on it, but new link attributes, which means that we are familiar with most of the time no follow links in which a certain attribute will be added to the code of a link to basically tell Google we’re going to link to this other website. We might not necessarily trust them, but we’ll link to them. They added two new link attributes that they will support. One is called user generated content or UGC as a link attribute, which basically States that the content was generated by users, things like forums or reviews. And then another one was sponsored to represent what is a sponsorship opportunity or advertorial. It’s interesting and there’s a lot of different multiple sides of how this is all gonna come into play.

Jason:                           06:47                My honest opinion is it’s probably not going to get used very heavily. People are going to stick with the no-follow if they do decide to continue that route. And Google has said that the no-follow route is still perfectly acceptable and suitable and most cases there’s also a lot of other people in the community that think that Google’s trying to rely on publishers and editors to teach their machine learning algorithms what would be user generated content and what would be a sponsor, a sponsored link. So that’s kind of the new happenings that happened in the SEO world. I know it’s super sexy, but yeah. So it’s interesting to see how that’s going to really play out over the next year. We all have our own assumptions. How would they treat it differently? Right. Cause I,

Charles:                        07:30                I know, let’s say you shouldn’t do this, but let’s say you want to do this and you just run around the internet and comment on a bunch of blogs to try to get links back. They’re all no follow. So they do nothing for you. What like would these mean, would these using a generic content or sponsored pages give you any kind of link juice or are they just also kind of just, I don’t know, worthless is the right word, but very whole value?

Jason:                           07:51                I think it’s a bit too early that anyone has been able to create some concrete testing. But I think logic will showcase kind of like a no follow link in the sense that they’re going to be linking to a sponsored website. Now, you know, is that a passive trust? The whole point of links on my backlinks really matter is because it’s sending trust from one relevant website to another. It’s kind of like mimicking word of mouth. Hey Charles, you know, go plumber. Yeah, use ABC plumbing. I’m going to trust ABC plumbing because they came from your recommendation and links kind of act in the same way. If something though has an ulterior motive and not necessarily pass the trust, how much SEO guy you can essentially be passed from there, I think is the question. I think logically these, the assumption would be very low, but it might be a little bit too early to tell. I feel like until it always kind of falls.

Charles:                        08:43                WordPress, I feel like this is one of the big things. Once they make an update and they change everyone kind of like, I don’t know what percentage of the web runs on WordPress, but it’s just like astronomical, like two digit percentage. It’s like onboard

Jason:                           08:56                Press. So I feel like once they implement this into core, that’s when we really kind of find out what’s happening. I don’t know. That’s just my opinion at least. Well the question is if they implement it cause they haven’t natively, from what I understand, they haven’t implemented no follow links. So when you’re creating a Lincoln no-follow, I know there’s a lot of different plugins that you can add to have that checkbox to make it a no follow link. WordPress has not unopposed to no follow natively. So this is WordPress on the CMS side, not on their free blog standpoint. Okay. So, for example, like our agency website is a WordPress website. For me to make a website that I’m linking out to and no follow link, I would either need to manually put it in the code on the content or I’m a nice plugin that you can get is something that’ll just adds all outgoing, no follow links, all outgoing links to be no follow or have a checkbox there, make this no follow and you check that.

Jason:                           09:48                I don’t believe natively they have the option to make outgoing links, no follow from the CMS standpoint on your own website. Gotcha. As a, as a publisher, and this is pretty off topic, but we’ll come back out what is the benefit of having more no follow links? First do following, so I guess we go outbound or inbound. Outbound. Like why not just do fall all you like why not as let’s say a huge blog, why would you even bother with no follow? If so take Forbes for example, forbes.com was known to be one of the many different high tier one websites that were being used for sponsored content. And people would say, I can get your posts or get you a link on forbes.com give me two grand and you got it, and it’s that type of abuse essentially that was causing the reputation of Forbes to go down a little bit on whether Forbes was trustworthy and farms made the switch.

Jason:                           10:46                Just like many others, you’ve not come up HuffPo any other big tier one publications. I made all outbound links, no follow for that exact reason, so they kind of stop incentivizing people to monetize their website, but on the other hand, it’s also a signal for trust. So typically linking out to a website, no harm, no foul, you’re not losing anything from it. It’s just the other website has potential the cane, if you’re not necessarily trusting of the website. That’s really the thing to progress in my eyes of no follow the say to Google, I will link out to this website. I won’t necessarily trust them, their content, their expertise, but they’re going to be labeled as a resource. Here I think is the biggest one in my eyes. I see it primarily to reduce the amount of sponsorship requests. Spammers. I say, Oh, they’re making all outbound links stuff follow, not worth hitting them up to try to get, I guess I suppose or something.

Jason:                           11:40                So let’s say you are a retail though. When you need more inbound, do follow links. What is the, what’s like the right thing to do and you know, going into 20, 20 half to actually get these inbound links. So there are link sellers that have great relationships with some publications that might be able to get you these types of links. Of course you’re running the risk of the quality of the link, the context of the link, what’s surrounding that link in terms of contextually, you know, are the words matching up as the content even great. Having a link on very poorly written content is kind of a inconsistency. It’s not something you really want. The best way to go about it, the way we do it in our agency is old school outreach, kind of like PR style outreach where we try to build relationships or dip into our current relationships that might be relevant for our clients and try to just have an exchange of value and say, Hey, here’s something that would be great to write about. Or here’s our client that does this. What would it take just to get them mentioned? Or is this something that would be interesting to your readers? So it’s a bit more work and definitely revolves around time. But taking that step out, reaching out to your favorite blogs, journalists, editors, just to help spread the word kind of like what a PR specialist would do, essentially is a great natural way to build things.

Charles:                        12:56                So it sounds like the hard work way, so there’s no, there’s no shortcut. I can just hit a button and get like a hundred different bound lines. I feel like that’s whatever. Yeah,

Jason:                           13:06                Yeah. The back in the old days of SEO, it literally, you can build thousands of links at the click of a button in 10 minutes and you instantly rank a rank for some absolutely crazy things. That’s just the old algorithm.

Charles:                        13:18                Yeah. The one, I mean the good part about this, I would kind of try to look at the other way, right. That it, I think they’ve made it more difficult and I get it. But the good part about that is as a retailer, your competitors probably aren’t doing this work either, right? Or it’s just, it’s gonna be more difficult for everyone. So, you know, maybe you can only get, you know, 10 inbound links for us a thousand back in the day, but they’re more valuable now. They actually matter versus before you could just get thousands of these like worthless lengths. And quality. Yeah, exactly. So what else? Yeah, cause I we get this to actually where a lot of the inbound links, it’s literally like a phone call with someone you know that we know hair and Hey you know we wrote this article, it would actually be good for you guys. And like it’s really this like it’s almost like sales at this point. You’re really like it’s a big deal to get a link. It feels like first before it just felt like, yeah. Anyone can link to anyone. Yeah. I think

Jason:                           14:17                It’s, well first of all somebody is calling you. I give them prompts. That’s like a lot of work as opposed to many other people who might just send out emails in bulk to a small amount of people, maybe 50 to 60 people. But it isn’t a little bit of work. It comes down to the end goal. Like you said, the quality of the link and how it comes into play contextually versus the quantity.

Charles:                        14:41                Yup. Any other, any other ways? I mean it really feels like, it’s like it’s just like one-on-one thing almost where you have to really like know the person. Are there any other,

Jason:                           14:54                You know, helps people to do an exchange of value that’s an exchange of value. You know why? A lot of people, like we get a lot of spam per day, a hundred emails a day, people saying, let me guest post to your site or I have something great for your audience, but there’s no exchange of value where we don’t even open them. They just go immediately to the trash. Why are you worthy of a first getting me to engage in your email? What value are you presenting? What do you offer us? Is it money? Is it a great audience that you might have to share your posts? What could it be? Have something that could be engaging to our readers. You know, if we had a blog that would be relevant or has a big audience as opposed to saying, let me just submit content with the Lincoln mind.

Jason:                           15:34                So when we, for example, if we do go the route of trying to have an exchange of value like that, our goal would be to create some kick ass content content that they would be proud to share on their social media channels so we don’t go for those cheap article creation routes. We have in house writers that take the time to research a content, a content piece, maybe make some creatives and graphics if it’s applicable. So it is work, but we are providing value to the readers and it is something of a mutual exchange, you know, they understand we might be linking to our side, which is fine for them because it’s not linked to promotionally. It makes sense. Maybe they’re citing an article that we have to back up what’s being posted on their website. Think of providing value as opposed to just expecting something like I have a great post which we all know is not great. It’s written by somebody out of the country, out of the U S that English is not the first language that tends to happen. And just, yeah, I think the best way to put it is to showcase value, you know?

Charles:                        16:32                Yeah. Do you, do you recommend building the article ahead of time and then going to them with this completed article with creatives and everything like that and saying, Hey, we have this take a look, or are you going to them with just concepts ahead of time and saying, Hey, you know, we’re thinking of writing the ultimate guide to ax or whatever it is. Are you interested? Like which way do you do this?

Jason:                           16:53                Both. So the only way we will technically have content prewritten is if we created something and then it got rejected, which just happens sometimes the messaging was off. So to avoid us losing in that aspect, we would try to pitch it, but typically at the same time we would also try to pitch new topics. So here’s an article we create on this topic. Feel free to check it out. If it looks good, there we go. If not, here’s some other ideas or here’s some other concepts that might be good for your blogs, for your blogs or for your readers. It says, any of these work. So that’s where it might be both. Typically we approach with trying to create something new and unique so we can aim to match their voice, match their style, and also match the personality of their audience. But if we do have something we try to make use out of it just so it wasn’t time and money wasted internally.

Charles:                        17:42                So yeah, I know the best is I’ve gotten pitched concepts and then they also link back to other articles they’ve written and they’ll come and say, we have this concept for you. We think this would fit great. And his 10 of the posts we did for other folks to kind of show, you know, an example of it works sort of thing. And that’s one of the things that then you’re able to look and get the sample, get the idea, and if it really does fit done, you know, you’re gonna get something similar quality. And that’s something, I don’t know. It’s always worked at least inbound with me. That’s awesome. Well not something I’ve done. It’s, it’s something we get pitched for articles. Yeah. How long are you at now? How long are you actually spending generating this content on like a per article basis? Is this, you know, so you’re not going to some you know, trying to think the right way of saying this. You’re not paying someone $3 an hour to create some spammy article. So like what are you doing and what sort of commitment is this?

Jason:                           18:38                So it really depends on the article and how much, how much research needs to be involved. If it is something that our in house writer is very familiar with, she can prob, she’s collected so much information. One of their writers this is why we love her so much is because she enjoys writing, but also she enjoys the reading aspect of the research aspect of it because she’s learning so much. And by this she’s kind of like a computer that’s collecting all this information that she can use for another article if necessary. So if it is something that she’s very, very familiar with, it can be a great 2000 word article, maybe in an hour or so and then it goes through the proofreading and then maybe a couple of revisions later on. But that would be the typical time frame. If it is something that is brand new to her or that work and or requires a lot of research, we would go two routes.

Jason:                           19:25                Either she would research and get that part done or we would seek out an expert in that topic that has an expert or writing on a specific topic. There’s a plethora of places to get experts that are awesome at writing things like Upwork for freelance websites, so we might seek out a writer if it’s a unique project or unique article. Content piece is the route we would go on and that can take, that would be a per project fee. So what, I don’t really know how much time it will take them, but in a day we have something delivered. The typical average article too long didn’t read, can probably be maybe two hours, two or three hours, give or take for one basic piece that doesn’t have much statistics or most resource in there.

Charles:                        20:11                Is there a target kind of length or like what is kind of the target when you’re building these? Right? Because over a certain size you can’t write a small book because no one’s gonna read it. But also you can’t write like a paragraph either. Right? So there’s like, and it seems like Idaho’s, I’ve gotten longer, or at least that’s my sense of the U S they used to be blog articles that were like super short and just like a graphic and now it’s getting to be like longer and longer. But like where is, where’s the range? That’s kind of right nowadays.

Jason:                           20:42                We have some publishers that will say that they have a minimum word count, which is fine. I think the goal be to hit account that accurately displays a message. The problem with many books, for example, that you might buy an Amazon is that they have repetitive paragraphs or repetitive chapters. Just for the sake of trying to fill it out a little bit more. If you can answer probably the best way you can in 500 words, why go over, you know, why bore somebody, right. Why risk losing that conversion aspect? If you have a call to action at the bottom of the article, if it’s an in depth article it might be a little bit more, I wouldn’t necessarily focus on a specific count but more focus in how long does it take to get to the point and answer the question while providing supplemental information.

Charles:                        21:27                Got it. Okay. So if there is, yeah, cause I’ve seen it before it publishes


answer. I know I like the dancing around basically as short as you can get away with, but the publishers might stop you as well. Yeah. Cause I’ve seen this before where they have, they have a hard limit and they literally just reject it if it’s below. They usually have, what are the style guide kind of explaining the length, the voice, that sort of thing. Any of the kinds of tips you’d give to a retailer that you’re working with around this? Cause? I’d like this, it feels like I was talking with Noah Kagan last I think it was last week. And yeah, episode one Oh two, and we were talking about goal setting right on. You can’t go out and say I want to hit a goal of X number of dollars, dollars per month.

Charles:                        22:15                Like it’s you could write but it’s not something you can directly control. But this concept of you want to pitch five different blogs, you want to write three different articles, whatever that number is. This is something that even has a smaller retailer. You could set that as a goal and just say every month, no matter what I have to pitch 10 blogs. Whether they say yes and no, I just have to pitch them and you can start to set some sort of numbers like that. So I feel like this is something where you can get like a cadence going and you know just test, test and get in the mode and you know maybe you pitch 10 and out of that you get one or maybe the number is a hundred to one whatever that is, but at least she’ll, you’ll learn.

Jason:                           22:50                Yeah, split test, see what works, try something new. If you’re trying to say the same thing for awhile and you send out a hundred emails and you’re getting a 0% reply rate or success rate, probably time to switch it up and get creative. You know, think about it like this again, we get maybe a little over a hundred spam emails like that per day, which typically all go to the trash. Your goal would be to create something different, create something that will, that they will open and they will read your email and then hopefully reply. Don’t be like the a I will review a high quality article or check out my product. I will send you a sample for free, which many people like free stuff, which is great and all focused on being different. If you have a personality on your brand, showcase that personality.

Jason:                           23:35                Be weird, be quirky. I, you know, we have a, we’re doing a website redesign soon and I remember mentioning dad jokes just cause I, I tend to be super weird and make your dad in inappropriate times so that we’re putting that personality on our website, showcase your personality, be different, create something that’s engaging and that if you receive that type of email, you would be quite shocked and respond. I’ve seen some really interesting things that have gotten attention. Things like, and again, everyone does require, but if you’re only sending out 10 emails a day, you can do something creative with their brand, with their logo. Maybe take a picture of it, of you holding their logo, whatever have you in the body of the email that’s engaging. It shows that you took the time to research them and you’ve gone ahead and just say, Hey, look at me over here. I’m holding your brand. I’m actually actually took the time to send you something personal versus just adding you to a list of 300 people that are going to get the same email.

Charles:                        24:33                Yeah, I was actually pitched by someone before, I think it was actually for the sh the show and they were on the site doing, using a loom of you used that it’s a, it allows you to capture the screen and your face at the same time. So there are on the business of eCommerce site with them talking to me through this like video. So it was like, Oh this is actually like, this is really just like they recorded just for me. It wasn’t like a thing they recorded. I mean maybe, I don’t know some other child’s they were talking to, but it really was and they were talking and I don’t know why they were on the side. It actually didn’t really make any sense, but you could see from the phone, but at least you could see from the thumbnail that they were on the site. So you’re like, I have to click this now. And then clearly there’s a person, so I have to absolutely at least see what they’re going to say. Right. So something like that really grabs my attention. I know be on the receiving end of this.

Jason:                           25:22                Yeah. Showcasing that it is something personal that they’re not pretty much, we will probably get those emails where people massively failed at those bulk sending where you see the brackets off, Hey, first name, we all see them when they just screw up really bad. That’s what we’re used to saying. If you want to, any publisher is used to seeing those type of emails be different. Take that for a time to be the more personal, you know, maybe acknowledged something on the website. If you find an error on their website, that’s always a win. They say, Hey, you have this error on your side. I was browsing looking, trying to get an idea of the audience, their personality that you might have in your site. Here’s something I noticed what you might want to fix ASAP. That’s one of, even if for example, I don’t have an alternative motive. If I’m on a website, I might just email them, Hey, notice issue to go by. I actually had someone,

Charles:                        26:11                I’ll just, I have some good example of this has a publisher. Someone sent me a screenshot of him giving a five star rating in iTunes for the show and talking and they were kind of pitching something and I was saying, Oh, it’s actually a pretty clever, it was like literally iTunes and I could see them. And then most was on like the submit button and they wrote this big rate and you know, you get a little notification for value and you kind of saw that. And it wasn’t like, it was like, Oh, I already read, I already read yours and like I will rate you if you do that. So it was like, Hey, I gave you a five star rating, I listen to this episode. And they cited a bunch a quarter, a bunch of things. It’s like, Oh, they really did their research. Right. So you’ll read through the whole pitch even though it’s like long winded. But now I read through it.

Jason:                           26:51                Have you ever heard of the book by Robert Cialdini? Influence? Yes. That’s a great, yeah. Talk. So that’s where, yeah, they’re pretty much falling into the laws of reciprocation. You know, Hey, I did this for you, I scratched your back. Can you come and scratch mine, which enhances the probability of them getting a great response. Great book recommendation for anybody that’s in marketing or conversion or just trying to understand the human psychology. But that’s where the power and the law of reciprocation and it’s an exchange of value. That’s really what they did.

Charles:                        27:19                Yeah. Yeah, they definitely, and when someone does that, you feel almost required to give at least give them some attention back. They gave you attention, so you’re going to give them attention back verse, you know that like, Hey, bracket first name. You know, they didn’t give you any attention. You just, you get it. So you feel like you don’t owe them anything because they didn’t give you anything rally. So yeah, I definitely, you can feel that being on the receiving end of this, any of the, other than just like written content. Like, let’s say I’m sitting here listening and I’m saying, you know what, I’m, I’m an awful writer, or I just don’t like, some people just don’t like this. Is there, I remember like a few years ago, infographics were like this thing that everyone was producing and then everyone got kinda bored of them. Is that, or maybe they didn’t, I don’t know. But is that still a thing or are there other non written pieces of content people still use?

Jason:                           28:08                Yeah, I thought it kind of faded away kind of like you that it was an old school thing, but I actually have a few colleagues that are still killing it with infographics for getting links back. And maybe it’s because it kind of died down a little bit over the years that it’s not so hot anymore, but it’s not something that I really delve into as well as a marketing tactic. But I do know people that are still using infographics with a lot of success. To my own surprise or I’ve, I said bullshit on you and your your links. And they showed us males like town and so they’ve pretty much fine tuned it over the years when it was hot and are still having success with it. Why stop it? Other things that are related aside from content. Of course there’s always sponsorship opportunities and you run the risk of getting a sponsor link or a no follow link of course.

Jason:                           28:53                But content really is King. You know how, so from an SEO standpoint, we use content to create the medic relevancy of a page. So when Google comes in, they understand what a page is about just by reading the content, without the content, the page title, meta information, they simply won’t know what a page is about. So that’s really used content. And for a site to link to you, what would be natural? Are they citing your piece of content? And I was, are we sourced for statistics? Are they linking out to it? Because there was a great product and our product pages don’t need to have a couple of hundred words of content that’s just really losing the conversion aspect. But that would be the other alternative different in commerce site is if you have a product page that’s aiming to get links. Anything else? Videos, rich media still work great.

Jason:                           29:44                You mentioned infographics slash images, you know that can be again, another tool if you market it right and create that differentiation. We still see, I still see a lot of, I created this awesome graphic you should link to it on this page, on your site. That probably won’t work as well. But videos is a good one. I think that a lot of eCommerce companies aren’t utilizing, to be honest with you. People want to see a face and I think a lot of eCommerce clients aren’t necessarily their about us. Page talks about the company as a whole, which is great, but people want to see a face to the name and they want to hear a great story. Nope, Nope. No one loves more than a great entrepreneurial story. Create a face to the name but a video, have a video, just introducing yourself, showing off your products, having weekly video series where you show something new or gift value.

Jason:                           30:29                It could be on a blog post and a video and then the content can essentially be a transcript of the video cause you don’t really need you to work very hard to do both creating unique content but people can link to that video, that video page that’s hosted on your website. Yup. Is that something that you could get, so you would try to share the video though or are you just talking about hosting and kind of just giving like about us and that sort of thing? What would you actually use the video? You can just host it on YouTube and then just embed it embedded on your website. There’s also a lot of other players that you can embed on your site if you want a different type of look where maybe YouTube might not be appropriate. And then from a content standpoint, yeah you can make it as a blog post and say, Hey men mentioned you.

Jason:                           31:13                If you mentioned a company for example, as a great example that might be a thought leader. I mentioned that a video saying, Hey you mentioned you in this video, would your social followers like that? And then if they share the video to their following is a decent chance that that following that’s reading it might link to it. So while social media doesn’t have a direct correlation into SEO, it could have an indirect correlation into SEO if somebody does see it and thinks to it. That’s one tactic that I’ve seen work very well saying for example, this company and that product so and so was absolutely killing it with this market. More thought leadership content, but then you reached out to them and say, Hey, you were mentioned just one idea. Yeah. Cause if the brand, if a larger brand mentions you kind of, even though on social rights, so social doesn’t do anything for SEO link juice, but it does make you more credible for now the hundreds of thousands of tens of thousands folks that have seen that.

Jason:                           32:08                And like you said, they might actually, some one of them might actually be a publisher. Yeah, exactly. A lot of these editors are just looking for content. A lot of these social media managers that might be working for these publications are out of continents. Yes. I know a lot of big companies that publish three or 400 content pieces a day, but if there might be looking for something different that they’re mentioned, that might be a little bit low success rate, you probably won’t be able to get something secured if they are publishing that much content. But you know, you even check out the social media feeds how often are posting.

Charles:                        32:40                Maybe they just need something new to post that’s not super promotional. We’re just saying, Hey we were mentioning this or check out so-and-so’s review of this in, or whatever it might be. I think you can get a little bit creative. Very cool. I’m just brainstorming right now. Yeah, no, these are, and I feel like some of this is good, right? Where it’s just news. It’s just, it’s just new stuff, right? Cause you started, if you read, sometimes you efficient through blog posts, you start reading it and you hit this tactic and you re, and then you kind of feel like, ah, it feels, I’ve heard this far. You scroll up to the top, you’re like, Oh, it’s 2012 that you’re like, ah, okay, now, now I see why I’ve seen this before. So just kind of this conversation, it’s, and like I said at the very beginning, it’s just like evolving things.

Charles:                        33:25                You need to, you need to be either, they get a lot of information from podcasts also just because folks like yourself, they do the research and then you can kind of just listen in hair. Oh, so this is where things are and you know, the current year and not just, you know, this old stuff from long ago that probably isn’t working anymore. So super helpful. I love the different brain Somo tactics. Been a big help app and then just getting creative. I think. I know that even in this conversation, I’ve had some ideas that I’m going to be writing down right after this call and I don’t know if someone else has done it before. I don’t know if it’s written in the format, but it might be something that would be worthy of us trying internally here in the form of videos. All right. Well you have to, you’re going to have to try that and we’ll have it back on the show and talk about that and find out. So if people want to kind of follow you check out the agency, what can they do that they can find me at break the web agency, LinkedIn, Jason berkowitz.com or just Googling my name. Awesome. Jason, it was great having you on. Thanks a lot. Thank you so much.

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