Putting Systems and People in Place to Help You Scale Your Business (E105)

  • Nate Ginsburg
  • Founder of SellerPlex


Nate built up his eCommerce business and sold for $1million in 2017. All while living around the world and doing lots and lots of yoga.

Now, Nate helps other entrepreneurs run better, more profitable and more scaleable businesses with SellerPlex.

Nate is passionate about living a free and balanced life helping others do the same!

Learn more about Nate on his Instagram @nteginsburg.




Charles:                        00:00                In this episode of a business V commerce. I talk with Nate Ginsburg about putting systems in people in place to help you scale your business. This is a business of eCommerce, episode 105.

Charles:                        00:17                Welcome to the business to be commerce. They show that helps eCommerce retailers start launch and grow [inaudible] eCommerce business. I’m your host, Charles Polaski. I’m here today with Nakeds Berg. Nate is a founder of seller Plex where he helps Amazon and other eCommerce retailers grow their business by scaling their supply chain. I asked him on the show today to talk about how you, you can scale your business by putting systems and people in place. So, Hey Nate, how are you doing today? Doing good. Doing good? Thanks. Yeah, doing good. So wanted to make sure. So sell a Plex. Is it just supply chain or do you guys do finance as well? You were just saying.

Nate:                            00:52                Yeah, so we basically you know, our sweet spot is all the things that need to get done to keep a business running, but are, you know, not really the fun stuff. And so I like, I believe that as an entrepreneur it’s all of our best opportunity. Me, you you know, all the e-commerce listeners to do what do what we’re best at and double down on, you know, where where we can add the most value and then you know, delegate and you know, offload the other areas that are, you know, necessary to run the business well but you know, aren’t going to actually grow the business. So that’s where that’s where we come in. So our services include a supply chain, finance admin so that, you know, you as the owner can yeah, double down on, on growing the business.

Charles:                        01:49                Got it. So it goes very well to show topic then. I love the idea of putting systems in place. It’s one of those things and e-commerce is a business where there’s a lot of repetition where a lot of things like orders come in and the goal is, you know, 99% of orders follow the exact same path. They do the same thing. Hopefully 9%, nothing goes wrong. They just kind of ship. So there’s a lot of this like work that just needs to be done every day, multiple times a day. So putting systems in place, e-commerce is like this, like soup compared to some other businesses like consulting where everything’s almost a one off e-commerce. The goal is there, it’s a factory, it’s assembly line, they just kind of move through. Right?

Nate:                            02:30                Yeah, absolutely. And so a little kind of background on me and the business. So I had my own eCommerce business, you know, started maybe five or six years ago and you know, I’m, I’m the kind of person that I’m not good at very many things and so needed to get help in all these areas that I, you know, were necessary and important, but you know, it wasn’t particularly good at or didn’t want to be good at, you know, for example, the customer service you know, supply chain, finance, admin and and yeah, like, you know, that allowed me to, you know, build this business that, you know, was you know, running very well. You know, sales were good, business was good, and it allowed me to, you know, it really provided a lot of freedom for me as the owner.

Nate:                            03:27                I’ve been spent, I spent a lot of time abroad. So I was living or had been living in like Thailand, Vietnam you know, traveled all over Europe. And and yeah, you know, I think you know, businesses are one of the best like vehicles to provide freedom for the, you know, for the owners. And you know, e-commerce businesses, like you were saying especially true because it’s, you know, it’s products, like you said, it’s a very set, you know, orders come in and you know, they get, they get fulfilled and, and it’s, you know, necessarily it’s products. And, and so, yeah, because of that, it, you know, is, is able to like the, the structure of the businesses allows you as the owner to, you know, have like a higher vantage point and, you know, working on the business as opposed to in the business. And, and yeah. Allows you to, you know, generate you know, financial freedom, time, freedom, location freedom, which I think is a good and important.

Charles:                        04:30                Yeah, I think there’s a fine balance too on this, right. Where I feel like when people are just starting off, and I usually talk to one of two extremes. Well usually people just starting off. I either see them trying to do way too much themselves or almost nothing themselves. No. Like these are try, outsource everything I would supposed to. Nothing. I feel like there’s some sort of balance where it, and that changes over time, that balance right. Where at the beginning you have to, you don’t have, you know, how the people are resources. So you kind of have to figure things out. And then over time you start to have resources and people that

Nate:                            05:04                The,

Charles:                        05:04                The changes, what do you kind of see? What do you see? That kind of ball.

Nate:                            05:08                Yeah, no, totally, totally agree. And it’s something, I mean, from, from my personal experience, you know, when I was starting my business you know, it’s important to do some of the work or be exposed to the work yourself first. You know, so like, you know, finance or supply chain for example, I’m not like those are not strengths of mine and like nor do I want them to be. But as I was starting my business and it was, you know, starting to kind of grow and take off, like I was for awhile, like I was the one who was at first doing these activities. So, so I knew, you know, so I understood them enough to know what needs to be done. Which then enabled me to effectively, you know, organize and, and then, you know, hire and delegate out those activities.

Nate:                            05:57                And, you know, I totally know what you’re saying. And you know, I talk to sometimes people that are, you know I guess in my experience, they’re often people that like, you know, maybe they’re coming from a you know, maybe like a corporate background where they have some money. And, you know, they’re trying to get into eCommerce and start their business and you know, they they just try to, like, they don’t, they might maybe haven’t even started the business yet, but their approach is just to, you know, try to like throw money at these kinds of different areas to get it, you know, like taking care of when they don’t really fully understand, you know, what it is and what needs to be done. And so, so yeah, I definitely think it’s, it’s, you know, important and ideal to, you know, you, you just need to, like, as the owner, I think you just need to understand it enough to, you know, well need to have some experience to understand it enough to then be able to pick and know, like if someone is doing the job well and you know, to be able to kind of manage that person.

Charles:                        07:01                Yeah. And there’s certain things that if you don’t really, no, the process, I feel like you can run into issues where, so let’s say that, you know bookkeeping for example, simple, simple example. You know, bookkeeping takes a bunch of time and e-commerce, right? You have a lot of, if you have a lot of little transactions, you have to log all of them, categorize that sort of thing. But going through it at least a couple times, I found it valuable cause then you know, I was at a, I was at a point where someone else was doing it. I did it previously. Someone else is doing it. And then you start reading the P, L, P, and L and you’re like, this seems wrong. I, you know, like just something here. It seems it’s not accounted for the right way. Like just the numbers seem off. And then once you dig in you can start to see, Oh, we’re just, we’re accounting for this incorrectly. But unless you kind of, unless you’ve gone through it and we bash and have some background to actually, you know, first do the bookkeeping in a second to read the P. And L, you’ll never even catch those mistakes. You’ll just, you have to like take them at face value.

Nate:                            07:59                Yeah, totally. And, you know, kind of on that point of, you know, she’s left finance and bookkeeping, like you know, if you, if you don’t know your numbers, like you don’t have a real business. And I see this as a big challenge for a lot of eCommerce businesses that like, you know, bookkeeping and, you know, accurate finances. Like these are things that, you know, they’re not, they’re not going to grow the business. So it’s easy to sorta you know, not prioritize, but you know, these are things and you know, as I’m sure you know that well if you don’t know your numbers, you know, how can you know what your actual profit is? Like, it’s easy. And this was me when my business was first starting and you know, sales are coming in, our bank account looked okay. And so like that was the metric that I was just kinda, you know, gaging off of.

Nate:                            08:47                But like, I had no idea, you know, how much we really were making profit and and yeah, like, you know, if you want, you know, scale your business and, or eventually sell or have like, you know, some kind of an exit, it’s just like necessary to know, you know, to have accurate numbers and you know, to, and then form decisions and then, you know, to your point about, you know, first starting with the accurate, you know, books and numbers and then, and like taking the time to look through the P and L like I’m, I’m now a partner in a, in a, a handful of businesses. And like in all of them, you know, like you know, in college, like accounting was my least favorite class. Like, hated. It didn’t like, you know, just like not the way that my brain kind of likes to operate. But then now, like as a business owner, like actually kind of, you know, come around and like I love looking at P and L’s like, and you know, cause yeah, it really tells you, it gives you like the insights that you need to, you know, make informed decisions to, you know, run the business effectively and not, and not totally implode.

Charles:                        09:51                Yeah. I feel like now it’s, it’s like a relaxing thing. Like all of a sudden if you have any, it gives you this like level of clarity on, ah, okay. I get it. I can see where everything is. You can see it’s very different.

Nate:                            10:02                Yeah. Well, and, and kinda to you know, add to the point about kind of, you know, relaxing and clarity and it’s something that like, I know for me in my businesses, like any, you know, anxiety around financial things often comes from just like, you know, lack of, you know, actually knowing what they are. And so it’s like, Oh, like I think we have, you know, this, that we need to pay are coming up and this and cash flow. And like, you know, when you, when you don’t actually know what the numbers are you know, what gets measured gets managed. And so when you’re, I dunno for, for me at least, like, if I ever have a, you know, anxieties about cashflow or finance this or that, when I actually like dig in and actually, you know, get clarity around what those numbers are.

Nate:                            10:53                Yeah. Like it’s, it’s like a lot of that, you know, anxiety drops away. And just like knowing, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m a big fan of, of Ray Daleo and you know, when he talks about selling stuff of, you know, principles like there’s nothing to fear from truth and like more truth is better. And so, you know, if you get clarity around what the numbers are like, yeah. Like there might be some challenging decisions that you have to make, but like, you know what they are, you know what the situations are and, and yeah, that’s like you know, well better than the alternative where you just don’t know and, you know, not sure of you know, yeah. What, what the actual situation is.

Charles:                        11:32                Covey, cover your eyes and hope as a business plan. So we have the best know in the corner. Yeah. So let’s say people did, they’re doing the good entrepreneur out right where they started the business. They’re doing a lot of things themselves kind of getting in the weeds. They’re answering their first support emails, they’re, you know, doing their bookkeeping. You know, doing all kinds of a day to day, right. Order film and doing kind of all that. Where when you want to start saying, okay, now it’s spending a lot of time doing all these random different tasks, but you don’t have, you don’t have any one thing that’s taking up, you know, usually kind of where the stats right is people say, yeah, if you have this one thing is taken up 80% of the time, go automate bash. But what really happens in real life is you have a hundred things. They’re all taken up 1% of the time. So when it was the first like method of attack of was the plan where you say, okay, I should focus on it. Putting a process in place for X when you have a lot of different little things.

Nate:                            12:30                Yeah. So good question. And I mean it really comes to you, you know, eventually you want to get everything to be, you know, documented and, you know, systemize and, you know, like I’m, I’m the kind of person, you know, like I understand and recognize the value of, you know, organization in a business. But like me personally, like you know, my like natural role is more like big picture and ideas. And so like I’m someone who has had to learn and kind of strengthen that muscle and adapt you know, to, to be better organized and, you know, kind of building these systems. And so, you know, I think honestly like it’s most important is just starting. Like if there are any, you know, whatever things that you’re doing, say customer service, I mean that’s a pretty easy one to, you know, start to delegate and like just start jotting down, you know, notes that could be parts of SLPs and like, so I’m really good at getting like, you know, 80, 20 SLPs and like, you know, me personally kind of creating and like, so 80, 20 meaning you know, just kind of like addressing the, the most common, you know, questions or responses or just like, even if it’s just like a start or part of it, like that’s fine.

Nate:                            13:51                It doesn’t need to be, you know, formatted perfectly, can literally just be like a document where you just write down bullet points of like, Oh, you know, quite this common question, this response or like, and, and so just like starting something to then have to, to then eventually, you know, go and and you know, hire someone that can, you know, take at least like some of the foundation that you’ve put together to then, you know, step into that role. And so I think, you know, to to, I guess, yeah, back to your question, like most important, it’s just like, you know, pick anything, whatever’s going to be like, the most important is just starting. And, and you know, as you go through your day, you know, just kind of being aware of like what activities you’re actually doing and you know, to, to then start creating you know, processes around how to do that. And, and one thing that, that I use and that is way easier for me is I’m recording like loom videos or like screencasts and I much prefer to, you know, whatever tasks you’re doing, uploading a new product for example. You know, you just, when you do at one time recording a video, talking through what you’re doing and like that is a great, you know, 80, 20 foundational piece that you can use to then give to someone else to then eventually get that off your plate.

Charles:                        15:14                Yeah, it’s funny. W boom, that’s a great tip there. I love any email I can answer in like two sentences. I’m like, all right, let’s, let’s do a loom video or I’m just going to sit there and, you know, I, I use loom literally to like respond to emails at this point. It just, if I can’t do it in two sentences, I just get on, get on the camera and start talking. But same thing with like building that into an SOP. So standard operating procedure, that content of is starting, right? I feel like that’s what people get hung up where they see, okay, it takes all these steps, it’s like a hundred steps to do this and it would take the type day to write that document out. But I think what people don’t realize is just that with anything like just write the gist, right? Like the outline, like the top like three bullets and at least now the SOP is there and you can start and then you can run through that with someone and keep adding it as you go. And then you have a place to actually start like collecting these ideas. Right? It’s just not like, you know, you’re getting every day as you get better, you’re going to move forward.

Nate:                            16:15                Totally. And I think people get caught up and something that prevents people from moving forward is, you know, this notion that like, you know, they have this idea of processes or systems and like it needs to be, you know, totally you know, completely fleshed out and you know, identifying and addressing, you know, any variable situation. And like, I mean, eventually that could be a good place to get to. But you know, to start, it’s just like, just start anywhere, you know, like a little screencast around, you know, any part of the process. Just like anything that, you know, the easiest place to just document so that you can then just start passing things off, you know, kind of, you know, one at a time. And then like also passing more of the burden of, you know, completing or perfecting the processes to whoever you pass it off to. You know, to keep that ball moving forward and, and yeah, just knowing that like you personally, like it doesn’t need to be perfect, done is better than perfect. And yeah, just kind of starting to knock them out is gonna allow you to start building some momentum.

Charles:                        17:25                So we’ve talked about systems and kind of people and processes. Is the SOP the kind of the core of this, are there other ways to kind of bake in processes into the business flow?

Nate:                            17:37                I mean, one thing that’s worked, I guess, well for me is you know, hiring people that are better at the, you know, role or task then than I am. And so, you know, in my team and when my you know, eCommerce business was getting started you know, I hired someone who, and so, you know, supply chain or finance, again, like these are areas that, you know, at first I was, you know, doing or was, you know, more involved with. And then like I went and hired people that actually were, you know, more experienced and better at those at those areas than I was. And so they then were able to come in and like, you know, they actually, you know, like I had some processes in place of, you know, how I was doing things, but pretty quickly they were able to come in and just like improve it and do them better because they know those areas a lot better than I do. And so, so yeah, like, you know, it’s, I guess there’s two broadly, you know, two types of hires, the ones that are just following your instructions, following your SLPs. And then there’s the ones that come in and actually like understand the tasks, you know better than you do potentially. And so they can, you know, like implement you know, better processes that you might not even know or understand, but like they do. And so you know, so you can kind of get your processes that way as well.

Charles:                        19:03                Yeah. Yeah. One thing I actually, one additional way I found to do that it’s been kind of neat paying for outside like trainings or courses and then giving them to people in the organization and saying, here, let’s like, let’s look at this other process and see how that worked and just implement it here. So it’s kind of like this little trick of basically you don’t, you don’t need to hire someone, you don’t need to come up with every process. You don’t need to hire someone for every process. You can just kinda basically buy the process from someone else and implement them in your business. I’ve kinda found that to be a decent strategy as well with this.

Nate:                            19:37                Yeah, yeah, totally. I’m you know, a big fan of, you know, buying courses for my team and we’ll definitely like, you know, encourage them. Like, I, I like to kind of give like high level objectives and projects and like, you know, sometimes these are things that like my team, I mean I’ve got a great team, but also I’ll, I’ll like give them projects that they might not have experience with. And so like I’ll tell them like, all right, like, I know you might not know this, but like, you know, here’s a book, you know, look for courses on it and like find whatever resources you need and like I’ll pay for them so that you can then learn them and and yeah you know, helps us all.

Charles:                        20:20                Yeah. And it’s one of those things where I feel like when people talk about with courses, any conference, there’s a lot of like snake oil, that sort of thing, but there’s a lot of very tactical things that uneven, you know, like how does that need commerce business? Like I like that. But there how to do bookkeeping and this very specific, like they’re very specific and tactical and they, you can walk away with basically like a, this like a process in a box of okay, this is what we’re going to do. Let’s just implement this today. And it’s just this, now you’d have a set of steps you can run through. And I found that to be an effective way of kind of, I don’t know, like shortcutting this whole process building of just purchasing these very tactical processes.

Nate:                            20:58                Yeah. All about getting as much help as possible. So then courses are a good, good way to do that. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Charles:                        21:07                So let’s say when you start building these SLPs, he stopped building this library a bunch of different documents or however you kind of, let’s see, I don’t know. You store them however you store them, right? How do you know that people are actually following them? How do you make sure you do that? How do you make sure they’re actually like, not being just done correctly, but let’s say over time you start, you know, you’re finding flaws in these, but when folks dot running through them at some point, they almost memorize them, right? So you don’t have to actually follow the process anymore, but you want to keep changing it. So you do want people to run through it, right? Because you want to evolve the process. But as people that are good at it, they don’t need to look at every single step. So how do you do it where people are still running through each time so that when you make changes, they happily actually follow them?

Nate:                            21:52                Yeah. So I mean, one thing that we do on that is for the different SLPs and that and the different processes, they they each have like an owner and you know, so like, and that owner is, you know, overwhelmingly not me personally. And so you know, so that’s kind of one thing of like, you know, having, giving someone ownership over the process and, you know, setting the expectation that, yeah. Like there’s a good system in place at the moment, but, you know, the, the objective isn’t to just kind of maintain, it’s to, you know, continue improving and something that I know you can and probably should do, although it also gets challenging. And, you know, including myself and with my business hasn’t, haven’t been able to like fully implement, but adding like, you know, KPIs to the different SLPs.

Nate:                            22:45                And so, you know, say it’s customer service and you have the SLPs and you know, a KPI could be like you know, messages answered in an hour or you know, time that it takes to do you know, to finish the customer service, you know, in a day or, you know, average response per message or, you know, you can kind of, you know, bake in these, these metrics and and you know, then use that and you know, whoever owns the SOP you also come up with these, you know, KPIs and metrics and then, you know, set goals for them. And so it’s not, you know, it’s not just to maintain whatever the, you know, KPI, it’s like there’s, you know, goals to, you know, continue to improve it.

Charles:                        23:29                Mm, okay. And then that way I feel like they kind of have to have to like execute this process every time. Cause what you don’t want, right, is someone to kind of memorize the process and then run off and just do it out of memory. Cause then that’s that. So you start to basically develop, build your own process at that point. And you don’t want them building their own process. You want them modifying the existing process. Right. So how do you, is there a way to prevent that?

Nate:                            23:56                I mean, the best thing that I can kind of think of is, you know, having the right people. So I’m a huge, like, you know, like I said, I kinda, you know, default to, you know, hiring. I love team building. I’ve got a great team. And, and yeah, like I know that’s something also that, you know, some people, it’s kind of like you get, you know, your, your belief creates your reality. And so on one hand, I know there are, and you know, know people that you know, they just think and assume that the people that are working for them or you know, going to mess it up or they’re not going to improve it and like they tend to find people that are working in their business that fit that description. Whereas, you know, if it’s like, you know, if, you know, when you come into it knowing and you know, prioritizing, finding the right people that are aligned with the business goals and objectives and, you know, the culture fit that that, yeah. Like they just understand what you’re trying to do and the you know, objectives of the business and you know, so, so yeah, that will prevent them from kinda like, you know, cutting corners, so to speak or you know, not like, not following or improving the processes.

Charles:                        25:10                Yeah. I feel like there’s certain people that I’ve very, like the processes make them actually feel better. And there’s other people that like if you tell them to follow a process, they immediately like freak out and like get very upset about it. It’s like, it’s like almost like this is like black and white thing, this like dividing line and this people are either love process or absolutely hate them.

Nate:                            25:29                Yeah. Yeah, totally. And so I’m a big fan of like personality types and personality tests and you know, we’ve got a pretty robust hiring process and lots of questions and follow up questions and test projects. And anyway, one of the questions that I always ask is about Myers-Brigg personality type and which I don’t know that one, I’m just kind of personally kind of deep dove into. And anyway you know, the Myers Briggs, there’s, there’s four different kind of traits. And the last one is, you know, P’s and J’s and you know, the short of it is like peas are much more kind of like, you know, lots of ideas big picture, you know, less structure. And then the J’s are the more like organized you know, process kinda, you know, oriented people. And, you know, for me like I’m naturally very much a P.

Nate:                            26:21                And so because of that, like I know that, you know, I pretty much exclusively hire Jay’s on my team that like are organized, you know, are just kind of like naturally lean into the organization, lean into the process. And you know, overall, I mean it works for me and our team, but but yeah, but, and, and you know, you want to, I, it’s important to have people that, I mean it’s better to, in a lot of situations to have people that enjoy process and really like, you know, thrive with structure. But then on the other hand, sometimes I’ll kind of catch myself where, you know, like I’m the kind of person that I just like, I just kind of figure things out and, you know, move pretty quickly and it’s just like, you know, maybe it says to do it this way, but as I’m kind of doing it, you figure something else out and just kind of like, you know, move things forward.

Nate:                            27:11                And so sometimes when I’m, you know, giving projects it’s a little bit ambiguous or this or that. And like some people on my team, you know, they’ll come back and like, they really, you know, need more and understandably like need more, you know, structure and you know, a process in order to execute on these things. And so, yeah, like sometimes I guess just like have to, you know, adjust to be able to effectively work with a team and understand what they need, understand, you know, how you tend to act or what you, how you do naturally. And then, you know, sometimes mold and adapt to, you know, give the team also what they need to be effective.

Charles:                        27:49                So if you’re, if you’re a cowboy, you don’t want to hire too many of the Cowboys cause it’s going to be, give me a mess, mess with people doing their own thing. And I definitely, I liked that about the Myers-Briggs cause I think that there’s actually some like truth in that, right? Where you can find out your personality type and then what you can do with that as an under just, you know, your strength. We also know your weaknesses, right, of, you know, that you can move, you know, fast and loose, but then, you know, okay, when it comes to building a process, maybe that’s not your strength or even following a process. So that allows you to hire for those kinds of blind spots.

Nate:                            28:22                Yeah, absolutely. And like I love the personality type stuff and that’s like, you know, on our team. Like we talk about that a lot. And you know, like I’m just very honest and transparent and open with my team and a lot of them had working for me for years. So like, you know, they know me really well and I know them and you know, they know that like sometimes I can be, you know, unorganized or erratic or, you know, change my mind or, you know, this get excited about a lot of things and like, you know, they, you know, we’ve just worked together for, for a long enough time that like, they know how I operate, you know, I know them and, and, and yeah, like overwhelmingly they can, you know, balance me out. Like, you know, they’ve, they know how I operate. And, and you know, we work well together and so they know that, you know, I need them to be like a balance, you know, to, you know, how I am in certain ways for the, for the business to run and, and yeah there’s not be a mess.

Charles:                        29:21                Got it. Yeah. So one final question before I let you run, cause I know everyone kinda loves to geek out on tool, like the tools that you use to this. I feel like every time you talk about processes, there’s the folks that, you know, they’re like, Hey, I just have this like text document that runs entire org. There’s like one like TX, there’s one text file and it like runs you organization. And then other folks have these like, you know, comp complicated like Zapier workflow, things that, you know, they’re like, I have a zap with like 9,000 steps in it. Where do you kind of a, what do you fall on that and then be, I guess if you do fall more towards the tools, what do you recommend?

Nate:                            29:56                Yeah, I’d say our, you know the overwhelming of our operations stack is gonna fall on a Slack. Asana is what we use for, you know, project and task management and then Google drives is where we, you know, store things. And so, so yeah, that’s, you know, what works to put it together. One thing that we recently implemented that might be useful for your listeners is having a, like a freelancer account for you know, a freelancer g-mail as well as you know, Slack in a sauna because we have this thing like, you know, going through a handful of hires and some of them stick and some of them don’t. And having to create new logins for everyone if they’re, you know, not sure how long they’re going to be around, it just like becomes a pain. And so that’s one thing that we’ve been doing.

Charles:                        30:50                It sounds like you need a process for that.

Nate:                            30:52                Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, the process, we got the now the, the freelancer account. Yeah. So that they can you know, if someone’s in, like we do, when we hire, there’s always like, you know, test projects and trial periods and, and so we can give people, you know, access to you know, what they need but don’t have to go through the hassle of setting up new accounts for everyone. And that of course, like, you know, Assad, I can get, you know, we can get expensive depending on how many team members you have and the more team members, the more expensive. And so so yeah.

Charles:                        31:26                Okay. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. So you, you’re more in keeps them documents, but you don’t have to go too crazy with this. Cause I think some people follow that. Everything has to be like this, like perfect workflow, automation. Yeah, everyone’s kind of different.

Nate:                            31:41                Yeah. I mean unlike, I’m big on, you know, the 80, 20 rule. And so, you know, doing like enough that it’s effective. But, you know, yeah. Like, like I said, like I’m, I’m not naturally the most like, you know, detail oriented person. And so for me, I’m all about effectiveness 80 20 and like, yeah, like our system it, you know, it works. And, and also, fortunately I have people, you know, under me on my team that like are better organized. So that allows me to come in and kinda like, you know, brain dump on a bunch of, you know, Asana tasks. And then like, people come in and we’ll like actually clean it up, you know, add clarity at deadlines, you know, make sure it’s like appropriately assigned. And so, so yeah, you know, that kind of works for me and our team. But again, it’s also because having the right people around you to, to support you and however you’d like to operate.

Charles:                        32:33                Awesome. All right. I think that’s super helpful. If people want to find you, kind of see what you’re working on, what can they do? So, yeah

Nate:                            32:40                I can check us out on seller plex.com and one thing that we’ve been doing and to kind of like you know, first offer to help businesses is implementing a operations audit. And so if you go to [inaudible] dot com slash audit, you can go and find out information there where we can, you know, run you through basically like the core systems and, you know, and processes to be able to have a scalable as well as equitable business. So, like the stuff we were talking about, you know, core SOP has documented effective supply chain. So you’re not overspending and you know, foundational finance so that your know your numbers on top of your numbers can, yeah, no. Be on top of what you need so that you can grow to whatever outcome you are you know, aiming for. So yeah, happy to you know, chat, reach out, anything we can do to help or just yeah, I love chatting to you know, other cool e-com owners and happy to help if we can. Cool. Thank you. I will definitely call that in the show notes. So thanks a lot for coming on today. I appreciate it. Hey, yeah, thanks for having me.

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